Saturday, July 28, 2007
Non-Regionalisms (Some things are just wrong, no matter where y'all are frum)
A local friend of mine who is very intelligent and possessed of a wide vocabulary happens to be from the north and spends more time than I care to hear putting down the south, southerners and so forth. I have asked her to refrain from doing this, as I am quite southern and nobody’s fool, and once I told her that if she has such disdain for this place and its people, Delta’s ready when she is. If you are southern and you make fun of southerners, you are perceived by us as clever and self-effacing (it’s always good to be able to laugh at oneself, whether oneself is an individual or a group); if you are not southern and you make fun of southerners, you are perceived by us as hostile. (This is usually where the term “Damn Yankee” rears its ugly head.)
This same friend was pontificating on her vast vocabulary and usage thereof, which is usually quite extensive, when she started bragging about her careful and masterful proNOUNciation of words. That turned me on my ear, and while I do not make a habit of correcting people’s grammar or the way they pronounce something, I just couldn’t ignore this in the face of her braggadocio on the subject, and I told her, “Excuse me, but I think you mean proNUNciation.” She, of course, would not be dissuaded and blew it off as, “Oh, that’s probably just a southern thing.” I hastened to correct her and said, “No, it’s a dictionary thing.” Because one of our favorite pastimes is playing “Upwords” (in which we are quite equally matched), we usually have a dictionary along when we play, and I shoved it at her and said, “Read it and weep.” She also disputes my claim that “ladle” (as in gravy) should be pronounced to rhyme with “cradle” instead of rhyming with “paddle”, as she says it. I suspect she will go to her grave convinced that that, too, is a southern thang, and I told her not to blame me if she was up Shit Creek without a laddle.
This same friend was pontificating on her vast vocabulary and usage thereof, which is usually quite extensive, when she started bragging about her careful and masterful proNOUNciation of words. That turned me on my ear, and while I do not make a habit of correcting people’s grammar or the way they pronounce something, I just couldn’t ignore this in the face of her braggadocio on the subject, and I told her, “Excuse me, but I think you mean proNUNciation.” She, of course, would not be dissuaded and blew it off as, “Oh, that’s probably just a southern thing.” I hastened to correct her and said, “No, it’s a dictionary thing.” Because one of our favorite pastimes is playing “Upwords” (in which we are quite equally matched), we usually have a dictionary along when we play, and I shoved it at her and said, “Read it and weep.” She also disputes my claim that “ladle” (as in gravy) should be pronounced to rhyme with “cradle” instead of rhyming with “paddle”, as she says it. I suspect she will go to her grave convinced that that, too, is a southern thang, and I told her not to blame me if she was up Shit Creek without a laddle.
Labels: Language
# posted by Anne Arky @ 8:33 PM 
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Even though I was born in the North, I would much rather live in the South. To me, the South is rich in culture and the people are a lot more genuine. The North reminds me of everything that does't make people happy - money, work, concrete and pollution.
"up shit creek without a paddle" lolol
Ann, you come across as very educated and proper, and then you throw a curve ball like that. That's why you're great!
"up shit creek without a paddle" lolol
Ann, you come across as very educated and proper, and then you throw a curve ball like that. That's why you're great!
A laddle? I don't think so! Anyway, sounds like you girls are full of fun and big words and well suited to one another! The north and the south? Kind of like the odd couple....however annoying - gotta lov'em. Oh, wait! That's family! I was born in the north, as Solarisgal, and raised in Kansas Oklahoma, so not exactly a southerner, but for sure not a northerner. As I have never heard of a "centraler", guess I'll just ride the fence. I think you can meet nice people no matter where (also not-so-nice people), and really I think money could make me very happy :) with a bit of work, a concrete swimming pool, but no pollution. Cindy
# posted by 
: 7:15 AM
: 7:15 AM
As a southwesterer who has lived everywhere, I learned many years ago that once people figure out what you mean, they're mostly okay with it. I understand that in some places I'm using a datta-base, here at home I'm using a data-base. The one word they seem to have the most trouble with here is route. Ya'll doesn't count so long as I never say it, because I don't, but everybody I know does. In the north, or course ya'll is a sure sign of southernness, witness the liberal sprinkling of it in TV shows perporting to be southern, when the writer does not understand that ya'll is plural. But back to route. To me, for some unknown reason it's always been pronounced "root", which gives me big trouble on my job, because I talk to many people every day who live on rural routes. Southern English is much closer to Olde English than English English is. Must be all that study of King James. My 3rd-grader had a real battle with her teacher because she used the word "smelled" in a composition, and the teacher checked it wrong, saying the word was "smelt". This went as high as the superindendant, who couldn't understand what the problem was. He said, "What's smelt? A fish? But smelt is the correct Olde English. We finally concluded that my children did not have to learn a southern dialect in order to make the grade in that woman's class. Personally, my word is "enow". It's Olde English. If you pronounce it "eNOW" it means "even now". If you pronounce it "eNEW" it means "enough". I learned all of this in my Funk & Wagnals. So I painted a picture of the word as a cross, and titled it "Enough Already". So is this enough already?
# posted by : 11:41 AM
: 11:41 AM
By the by, whoever heard of the words "pecan mott"? Courtesy Funk & Wagnals and my Mississippi grandmother.
# posted by : 11:45 AM
: 11:45 AM
I can't help it, you got me started. Any of "ya'll" ever been to Texas? Is Bowie Booey or Bowie as in the singer David? Depends on where you are. In TX it's Booey. Yes named for Jim Bowie. The old TV show, by the by, pronounced it Booey. What else is there? How about La Mesa. I know perfectly well how to say La Mesa. In Texas the town in pronounced Lameesa. There's also Elgin. We've all heard of or even owned an Elgin watch or two, haven't we? Or at least seen commercials. Well, there's an Elgin OK and an Elgin, TX. In OK it's Eljin. And for the watches. In TX it's pronounced Elgun. As it is in Olde English. And in England to this day, I believe. But it's still spelled Elgin. Them Texuns is strange. Or are they really Olde Englishmen?
# posted by : 6:28 PM
: 6:28 PM
Solaris,
You know we would love to have you down here. You and Meg and I would have loads of fun. Come on down!
If Anne Frank could believe that people are basically good at heart, I guess I can, and I do. I don't have a Dixie mentality and divide people into northerners and southerners generally; my point in this post is that my friend somehow thinks she is superior to southerners simply by virtue of having been born northern, and I loathe that kind of attitude. Good and bad can be found in everybody, and stupid is equal opportunity.
You know we would love to have you down here. You and Meg and I would have loads of fun. Come on down!
If Anne Frank could believe that people are basically good at heart, I guess I can, and I do. I don't have a Dixie mentality and divide people into northerners and southerners generally; my point in this post is that my friend somehow thinks she is superior to southerners simply by virtue of having been born northern, and I loathe that kind of attitude. Good and bad can be found in everybody, and stupid is equal opportunity.
Cindy,
The odd couple, indeed! I love it. Last week this same friend was telling me about another friend of ours who got a scholarship for going back to college, and she said our friend would even have her living expenses paid by a STIPPend, pronouncing the "I" to rhyme the word with "rippin'". The only thing I could say was that I was sure she'd drang out her lame "You say poTAYto, I say poTAHto" argument whenever she was faced with being proven wrong, but I was pretty sure it was pronounced "STYpend" to rhyme with "ripen". It is only her sense of intellectual (and every other kind of) superiority owing to her northernness that moves me to point out these things to her. Generally speaking, I'm pretty much live and let live, but like I said, her attitude about this just flies all over me.
The odd couple, indeed! I love it. Last week this same friend was telling me about another friend of ours who got a scholarship for going back to college, and she said our friend would even have her living expenses paid by a STIPPend, pronouncing the "I" to rhyme the word with "rippin'". The only thing I could say was that I was sure she'd drang out her lame "You say poTAYto, I say poTAHto" argument whenever she was faced with being proven wrong, but I was pretty sure it was pronounced "STYpend" to rhyme with "ripen". It is only her sense of intellectual (and every other kind of) superiority owing to her northernness that moves me to point out these things to her. Generally speaking, I'm pretty much live and let live, but like I said, her attitude about this just flies all over me.
Ah, Not the Mama -- you know I could never get enow of you! I love that word and had never heard of it before. Thanks for the intro. I'll have to remember it for future reference.
I agree, much of the southern language, as it were, is born out of Elizabethan English, much of which lingers even today, and even when I was a toddler, I always enjoyed the mental challenge of trying to interpret the old-time mountain expressions of my relatives and others who surrounded us. They all sounded so foreign, even to my very young ears. Mother was bound and determined that while we could be allowed to sound southern (which we most certainly are), she was not going to permit us to sound country or hillbilly, and it's only been in recent years that I have developed a very healthy respect for the fine and delicate line she walked at that time. She was trying to teach us not to speak like the very people (our families) who were putting a roof over our heads (we were living alternately with one set of relatives and then another for about the first three years of my life) without offending them by being blatant about it. (I'm sure the idea of her, Daddy and us three kids living in the street loomed large in her fears.)
I agree, much of the southern language, as it were, is born out of Elizabethan English, much of which lingers even today, and even when I was a toddler, I always enjoyed the mental challenge of trying to interpret the old-time mountain expressions of my relatives and others who surrounded us. They all sounded so foreign, even to my very young ears. Mother was bound and determined that while we could be allowed to sound southern (which we most certainly are), she was not going to permit us to sound country or hillbilly, and it's only been in recent years that I have developed a very healthy respect for the fine and delicate line she walked at that time. She was trying to teach us not to speak like the very people (our families) who were putting a roof over our heads (we were living alternately with one set of relatives and then another for about the first three years of my life) without offending them by being blatant about it. (I'm sure the idea of her, Daddy and us three kids living in the street loomed large in her fears.)
Now, Not the Mama -- you know better than to smite a Texan to me, since I are one! (Don't you?) :)
I know what you mean about the different pronunciations, with respect to ROOT or ROWT or different town names. In Maryland, it's pronounced BOOey, and I didn't even know Texas had one (although it would make sense, given his history), but I knew David pronounced his like Jim's. Here in Georgia we have a town spelt (sorry, I couldn't resist) like the capital of New York, but they pronounce it Al(short "a")-BAY-nee. You'll recall, also, that "back home" we have Blountville, whose Blount does not rhyme with "mount" or "fount" but is well and truly BLUNT. Go figure.
In New Hampshire, they have a town spelt the same way as the capital of Germany, and it was once pronounced thusly, but during World War II (or perhaps the first one, but I think it was the second) they began pronouncing it BER-lin due to the anti-German stigma of the time, so you never can tell what might cause people to adopt certain regionalisms.
I know what you mean about the different pronunciations, with respect to ROOT or ROWT or different town names. In Maryland, it's pronounced BOOey, and I didn't even know Texas had one (although it would make sense, given his history), but I knew David pronounced his like Jim's. Here in Georgia we have a town spelt (sorry, I couldn't resist) like the capital of New York, but they pronounce it Al(short "a")-BAY-nee. You'll recall, also, that "back home" we have Blountville, whose Blount does not rhyme with "mount" or "fount" but is well and truly BLUNT. Go figure.
In New Hampshire, they have a town spelt the same way as the capital of Germany, and it was once pronounced thusly, but during World War II (or perhaps the first one, but I think it was the second) they began pronouncing it BER-lin due to the anti-German stigma of the time, so you never can tell what might cause people to adopt certain regionalisms.
Are Elizabethtown, TN and Elizabethtown, KY spelled the same? I think they are. But in TN it's ElizaBETHton, and in KY it's ElizabethTOWN. Speaking anthropologically, language evolves to create human diversity. Ain't that lovely? By the way, we have Boise, ID, and Boise City, OK. In OK it's Boys City. And how could you ever think I would criticize Texas or Texans? Today is my youngest grandson's 2nd birthday. His name is Keller Houston Martinez. Named for 2 Texas towns.
Speaking of human diversity, one of my text books from college had a picture of a couple of tribal women from Africa. Old Frederick's of Hollywood catalogs had drawings instead of photos. The models in the catalogs had boobs shaped like ice cream cones. In the text book, those women had butts shaped like ice cream cones. Thought you'd like that mental image.
To quote my mother, "Nobody has more fun than people."
Speaking of human diversity, one of my text books from college had a picture of a couple of tribal women from Africa. Old Frederick's of Hollywood catalogs had drawings instead of photos. The models in the catalogs had boobs shaped like ice cream cones. In the text book, those women had butts shaped like ice cream cones. Thought you'd like that mental image.
To quote my mother, "Nobody has more fun than people."
# posted by : 5:07 AM
: 5:07 AM
Yeah Anne, we'd definitely have tons of fun.
Don't feel bad about the north/south thing. I have a nasty New York accent, which I try to control very well. But when I get angry or excited - out it comes! (But I don't say terlet for toilet nor do I say Joisey for Jersey. Lol)
Don't feel bad about the north/south thing. I have a nasty New York accent, which I try to control very well. But when I get angry or excited - out it comes! (But I don't say terlet for toilet nor do I say Joisey for Jersey. Lol)
How about Worcester as Wooster (Boston). I moved from Vt to LongeIsland and they constantly made fun of my accent! I'd say dog and they say dooowag and yet when it's god it's not goowad?!
Doowag indeed. When I lived in NJ, I commented about the roads being so slippery the second there's a sprinkle of rain, and remaining so for the duration. A Joisey man told me it was because of the earl on the road. As if we don't use oil on the road in the south. I decided to let it go. I'm convinced it's not earl on the road in Joisey, It's pollution washing out of the air.
When my sister married a man from Rochester, NY, even the way she pronounced my name changed.
And the girl from Mass. who moved here in Jr. high claimed to be in 9th gred.
Remember Gomer Pyle? That was an absolute insult, the way he chewed every word. Odd that nobody else on any show he was ever on did. What was his real name, anyway?
When my sister married a man from Rochester, NY, even the way she pronounced my name changed.
And the girl from Mass. who moved here in Jr. high claimed to be in 9th gred.
Remember Gomer Pyle? That was an absolute insult, the way he chewed every word. Odd that nobody else on any show he was ever on did. What was his real name, anyway?
# posted by : 1:51 PM
: 1:51 PM
Akakarma,
I had to crack up over your "doowag". I grew up in Tennessee, where we put our shoes on, and occasionally awn, and our neighbors who were a product of a mixed marriage (half Tennesseean, half New Jerseyan), put their shoes owon, usually while their mother (the New Jersey one) drank cawahfee (with cream and sugar, of course).
I had to crack up over your "doowag". I grew up in Tennessee, where we put our shoes on, and occasionally awn, and our neighbors who were a product of a mixed marriage (half Tennesseean, half New Jerseyan), put their shoes owon, usually while their mother (the New Jersey one) drank cawahfee (with cream and sugar, of course).
NottheMama,
ElizabethTOWN is in New Jersey; ElizaBETHton is in Tennessee, with no "w". As I mentioned to you before, when I was learning about things Shakespearean, the ElizaBETHton thing used to confuse me when I would see the word ElizaBEETHan -- tripped me up every time for years!
ElizabethTOWN is in New Jersey; ElizaBETHton is in Tennessee, with no "w". As I mentioned to you before, when I was learning about things Shakespearean, the ElizaBETHton thing used to confuse me when I would see the word ElizaBEETHan -- tripped me up every time for years!
NottheMama,
Don't get me started on earl in the road -- the one thing I have always agreed with the Dixie Chicks about is that Earl must die! But believe me, I have known people who talked like Gomer Pyle, and he did have that western North Carolina accent down to a science. I have some cousins with those roots, and they talk like that. I had a coworker once who said he had always lived in Georgia, except when he did a brief stint in the military, and I asked him why he talked like he was from western North Carolina. His jaw dropped about four feet, and after he put it back, he said, "My daddy was born and raised in western North Carolina! How did you know that?!" I think Jim Nabors (the actor who played Gomer) was actually from Alabama, but I wouldn't swear to it. (Jim Nabors and I have the same birthday, by the way. Shazayam!)
Don't get me started on earl in the road -- the one thing I have always agreed with the Dixie Chicks about is that Earl must die! But believe me, I have known people who talked like Gomer Pyle, and he did have that western North Carolina accent down to a science. I have some cousins with those roots, and they talk like that. I had a coworker once who said he had always lived in Georgia, except when he did a brief stint in the military, and I asked him why he talked like he was from western North Carolina. His jaw dropped about four feet, and after he put it back, he said, "My daddy was born and raised in western North Carolina! How did you know that?!" I think Jim Nabors (the actor who played Gomer) was actually from Alabama, but I wouldn't swear to it. (Jim Nabors and I have the same birthday, by the way. Shazayam!)
Gads, are we rolling on this or what?! I certainly am no expert on dialects....or is it dialicks :) My maybe-one-day-will-be bro-in-law is from Alabama, and I think he is a pure JOY to listen to. Not just his accent, but I love the way he talks sooooo slow, like hanging onto every word, almost to signify the importance of what he is saying. On the other side of this joy is the way my mother-in-law pronounces barGEN. I just nearly get the shivers. But then again, I am Cindy, and half the time people think I am telling them Sandy. But I don't say barGEN! Cindy
# posted by : 8:39 AM
: 8:39 AM
Cindy,
I dated a guy once who was a loyer from Lowon Guyland. We didn't figure we had much chance for a future when we couldn't halfway understand each other without an interpreter.
Anne
I dated a guy once who was a loyer from Lowon Guyland. We didn't figure we had much chance for a future when we couldn't halfway understand each other without an interpreter.
Anne
Hey, Solaris,
Email me your site again, please -- I have a new IPS and my favorites didn't come with it. Send it to: annearky@prodigy.net. Thanks.
Anne
Email me your site again, please -- I have a new IPS and my favorites didn't come with it. Send it to: annearky@prodigy.net. Thanks.
Anne
Anne....where is Lowon Guyland? I have certainly heard loyer, but I couldn't determine the rest.... My brother-in-law from Tucumcari always says I wont one of those! We've had so much fun with these non-regionalisms! What's your next blog?! Hey! Man-bashing is always fun! You know, can't live with 'em and can't live without 'em! Just teasing....seriously. Cindy
# posted by : 6:43 AM
: 6:43 AM
Cindy,
Say it out loud, just like it's written, and I think you'll be able to figure out where Lowon Guyland is.
Man-bashing is too easy -- it's like shooting fish in a barrel! I'll think of something.
Say it out loud, just like it's written, and I think you'll be able to figure out where Lowon Guyland is.
Man-bashing is too easy -- it's like shooting fish in a barrel! I'll think of something.
Well, I see I have to make a correction in my geography -- ElizabethTOWN is in Kentucky, not New Jersey, as I previously asserted. I think it's Elizabeth, New Jersey. I hate when that happens! But either way, it's still ElizaBETHton (no "w"), Tennessee.
Say Cawfee Sol ;-P
Okay so I am really South, South Australia infact and the Eastern states of my great Country think I sound New Zealand? Go figure
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Okay so I am really South, South Australia infact and the Eastern states of my great Country think I sound New Zealand? Go figure
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